. >> does all -- does the debate around the nsa and all of the things that they're doing slow down your business? >> no, i wouldn't say it slows it down, it takes a business that's normally not been discussed in the public and it puts it in a public context. and so it makes it a little bit more difficult for the policy makers, i think, that are talking about it. our business is focused on the development of the capabilities associated with it. the difference is -- the wonderful thing about being in the united states, we're very creative, very inventive, we've invented a lot of these technologies that have dual purpose. we can use them to look at adversaries and use them to look at our own -- >> tell us about the technologies. >> well, let's just take cyber, for example. a lot of what we do is computer network defense. there are other parts of our business that might look at somebody else's computer network and look at it from an offensive capability. >> let me ask you this. i know, cliff, when you get involved it's because management wants you to come in. you know what you're talking ab